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 Between Rome and SSPX

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JoanScholastica
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PostSubject: Between Rome and SSPX   Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:05 am

Here is the recent news about what's going on between Rome and Econe. Please pray that everything turns out right and for the greater glory of God.


The Vatican ultimatum to rebels Lefebvre: peace if the Council accepted

Andrea Tornielli

In relations between the Holy See and lefebvriani started the countdown: by next June 28 Fraternity St. Pius X founded by Archbishop French insofferente towards the liturgical reform post-conciliar, will have to decide whether to accept the five conditions proposed by the Vatican in order to come into full communion with Rome.

Some days ago, the higher lefebvriani, Bishop Bernard Fellay, met with Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, chairman of the Committee Ecclesia Dei, which deals on behalf of Benedict XVI of negotiations with the traditionalist group. Fellay, who previously had written to Pope calling for the withdrawal of excommunication imposed by John Paul II in 1988 to Lefebvre and the four new bishops that he had wanted to consecrate without the consent of the Holy See (among them Fellay itself), received a letter with the five points set by the cardinal and will discuss during the next chapter of the fraternity, to be held later this month.

Now more than ever the negotiations came close to an agreement that sanerebbe mini-schism which has now created two decades ago allowing the full return of lefebvriani in the Catholic communion.

Among the points that the Holy See asked to sign there would be, according to the indiscretions gathered, the acceptance of Vatican II and the declaration of full validity of the second put the liturgy reformed two conditions that Lefebvre had already signed with the then cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 1988.

The Vatican, for its part, offers the group a framework traditionalist canon similar to that of Opus Dei, namely a "prelature", which would allow the fraternity to continue its activities and to train its seminarians.

The march of rapprochement was started in 2000, when the lefebvriani made a Jubilee pilgrimage to Rome. It followed a brief hearing granted by Pope Wojtyla to Bishop Fellay and start the long and laborious negotiations with Cardinal Castrillón. Many things have changed since then however. The lefebvriani asked, before making any step towards agreement, which was liberalised the ancient missal pre fell into disuse after the liturgical reform.

The new pope, Benedict XVI, particularly sensitive to these issues, a year ago published the Motu proprio declaring full citizenship of putting permettendola in every parish, in fact subtracting the bishop can prohibit.

The application of new directives papal was not easy, there are a lot of resistance - some clamorose, of course - but there is no doubt that by declaring the existence of an extraordinary rite Roman (the old) and an ordinary (that reformed) , The Pope has authorized throughout the Church and unrestricted Tridentine the celebration.

Moreover, Ratzinger has reintroduced the cross at the centre dell'altare, began to distribute communion to the faithful kneeling, has restored ancient vestments: all signals that go in the direction to emphasize the continuity of tradition.

Conditions so favourable for a return to full communion, in all likelihood not be repeated. Many faithful, now that they have obtained entry into ancient rite, do not understand why the fraternity does not definitively peace with Rome. Lefebvriani have come to realize what is happening, even if Fellay has some problems of internal resistance. The choice is whether to agree and come into full communion with the Holy See, or remain a separate entity with little risk of turning into a sectarian gruppuscolo and irrelevant.

© Copyright Il Giornale, June 23, 2008.

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PostSubject: Re: Between Rome and SSPX   Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:17 am

Important: What Fellay said about the ultimatum
UPDATED

[Update - June 24, 0900 GMT] The Superior General of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX), Bishop Bernard Fellay, spoke of the "ultimatum" in his sermon during the Mass of Ordinations in Winona, Minnesota, last Friday (June 20):

Bp. Fellay wrote:
[33:12] Certainly, my dear brethren, you expect from me today also a certain update of how things are going with Rome. All these excommunications, or the lifting, or the retraction of the decrees of excommunication, is it coming or not? Frankly, I don't know. My impression, right now, is that we still can wait for a while, and maybe a good while. And why so?

Because the approach we have towards the question is not the same as the one of the Vatican. And I say this problem, always these words, they were the words of the Archbishop at the time of the bishops' consecrations twenty years ago. He said, 'Rome wants a reconciliation, but with these words, they intend, they want to say that we go back to the new', which is not to go back, but go in. And that's not what we want. He said the perspective is different, they speak of reconciliation, but it is an integration to the new. And we don't want that.

In '75, '76, it was already the same problem. Before the suspension of '76, Rome sent an ambassador to the Archbishop who told him, 'Say with me one New Mass, concelebrate with me one Mass, and everything is fine'. And now, well, they don't say 'Say one Mass', they just say 'Shut up'.

It is so far that Rome has given me an ultimatum. Seems that the last Letter to the Benefactors has been not so well received in Rome. They consider it as a proof of pride, of arrogance, and that's what they don't want. And we are not going to shut down our mouths, or to shut up.
[...]

[45:08] And now, we are, should we say, something like at a crossroads. And in a certain way, Rome is telling us, 'OK, we are ready to lift up the excommunication, but you cannot continue this way"

So, we have no choice, we are not going this way, we are continuing what we have done, we have fought now for forty years to keep this faith alive. To keep this Tradition not only for ourselves, but for the Church. And we are just going to continue, happens what happens. Everything is in God's hands. If God wants this proof, this trial to continue, it may continue. He will give us the grace we need for it. No fear, we'll wait for better times. That's what the Archbishop said twenty years ago. That's what we continue to say today.

Of course we have to do all what we can to have this faith to be continued, to be preached everywhere, this faith to be really, and all this Tradition to be really back in the Church. We have to do whatever we can for this, but nothing else. It is a hard time, my dear brethren, but it is not ourselves who are going to change it. We are in these circumstances, we did not cause them. So we depend on God.

(Audio: Voice of Catholic Radio)

------------------------------------


[Original post:] Father Adam Portugal, SSPX, mentioned Sunday in his sermon for the Sixth Sunday after Pentecost (St. Michael the Archangel Chapel, Farmingville, Long Island, New York) some important information which confirms what Andrea Tornielli published this Monday, relating to the faithful what had been said by the Superior-General of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X ( FSSPX/ SSPX) in his conversations with the priests of the United States District after the ordinations which took place last week, in Winona, Minnesota.

Father Portugal's words also reveal the mood of the SSPX leadership.

We have transcribed the most relevant passages of the sermon regarding this matter:

Fr. Portugal wrote:
[1:11] Apparently, with regards to Rome. He mentioned it publicly, so I think it's fitting to mention it publicly, since you were not there, and to put an end to people flapping their mouth making gossiping sessions. His Excellency, Bishop Bernard Fellay, is not very pleased with that, very upset. He's very disappointed that people would lie like that. Especially the Sedevacantists, that are causing trouble, as usual, flapping their mouth and accusing him of wanting to be a cardinal, and wanting basically to sell his soul and the SSPX, all kinds of statements going around. It's hideous, really.
[...]

[2:04] At any rate, Rome apparently has set an ultimatum, it's what he said, for the end of this month of June, it's what he said. He does not know what that means, what the ultimatum means, what will happen, but that was what he said, and, basically, and he mentioned at the dinner, it was not in the sermon, he brought it up in the dinner, that the, uh, the points...[sic] He got a fax from Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos in French stating some four or five points, basically of what Rome expects from the Society of Saint Pius X. Basically, of course, you know, sign, sign up [...], right? But basically it's 'be quiet'. 'Fine, you can say the Latin Mass, fine you'll be recognized'.

At least, you know, in the 1970s they wanted Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre to say the New Mass once. It's no longer a question anymore. But, the problem has changed. At least, uh, it's become, it's the same problem, it hasn't changed, what I mean is, insofar as their condition now is they don't want us, basically, as he said, they want us to be silent, they don't want us to speak of, let's say, let's not rock the boat, basically, regarding Vatican Council and the New Mass. So to put it in a nutshell, that's it.
[...]

[4:53] At any rate, so, Rome has made this known, public, His Excellency made it a public concern to everyone at Wino...[sic], at the ordinations, so. But, to reassure the faithful, that's all, to simply reassure the faithful that we carry on, and if Rome wants to punish us for that, well, hey, I'm sorry, what is our crime? For a punishment, there must be a crime.

(Audio: Voice of Catholic Radio)

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PostSubject: Re: Between Rome and SSPX   Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:07 am

Conditions which result from the meeting of June 4, 2008,
between Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos and Bishop Bernard Fellay

Pontificia Commissio
"Ecclesia Dei"

1. The commitment to a response proportionate to the generosity of the Pope.
2. The commitment to avoid every public intervention which does not respect the person of the Holy Father and which may be negative to ecclesial charity.
3. The commitment to avoid the claim to a Magisterium superior to the Holy Father and to not propose the Fraternity in contraposition to the Church.
4. The commitment to display the will to act honestly in full ecclesial charity and in respect for the authority of the Vicar of Christ.
5. The commitment to respect the date - fixed for the end of the month of June [2008] - to respond positively. This shall be a condition necessary and required as an immediate preparation for adhesion to accomplish full communion.


[Signed] Darío Card. Castrillón Hoyos


Rome, June 4, 2008

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PostSubject: Re: Between Rome and SSPX   Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:07 pm

Thursday, June 26, 2008
Stick Again
Eleison Comments LII

Rumors abound once more: before the end of June, in other words in a few days' time, either the Society of St. Pius X will begin to give way to Rome's demands to conform to Vatican II and the New Mass, or Rome will declare to Church and world that the Society and its followers are in formal schism and out of the Church.

As to rumors of the Society taking any action that would imperil the defense of the Faith, I think they are to be wholly discounted. On May 5 of 1988 in particular, Archbishop Lefebvre went as far as the Faith would allow him, and even a little bit further, to come to terms with the Church authorities, but their terms finally persuaded him that they could no longer be trusted to look after the Church's immutable Tradition, which is why he went ahead with the episcopal consecrations of 20 years ago.

Similarly, ever since the Society's Jubilee Pilgrimage to Rome in 2000, the Society has gone as far as it could to correspond to the goodwill gestures of Cardinal Castrillon, and even a little bit further, but in eight years it has never given to the Cardinal that abandonment of the Society's stand on Tradition that he wanted. On the contrary, the latest Letter to Friends and Benefactors of the Society's Superior General reiterated firmly that stand, which is surely where the rumors come from of the Cardinal losing patience with his eight years of carrot, and turning once more to the stick.

Catholics should in no way be frightened by any threat of being declared formally, i.e. properly and officially, in schism, or out of the Church. Proper Catholic officialdom would judge, like Our Lord tells us to judge (Jn. VII,24), by reality and not by appearances. The reality is obvious: it is the Conciliar "Renovation" and not Catholic Tradition that has broken with the Catholic Church.

However, when in the next few days the Society makes no gesture towards Rome sufficient for Rome's purpose of dissolving the resistance of Catholic Tradition, I am for my part not at all sure that Rome will really go ahead with any declaration of formal schism. Maybe after eight, or 20, or 38 years of the Society's resistance they really are losing patience, but does not all past experience tell them that each time they use the stick, it stiffens rather than dissolves that resistance?

And if they did go ahead with such a declaration, Catholics should rejoice, because after several years of some ambiguity there would once more be some clarity ! Twenty years ago, all Society Superiors gathered in Econe rejoiced in their bishops' "excommunication". Would not the same thing happen this time round if Rome also cast priests and laity into its outer darkness ? Not that any of us would rejoice in Rome's self-abasement... Kyrie eleison.

Munich, Germany
Posted by Bishop Richard Williamson at 2:50 PM

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PostSubject: Re: Between Rome and SSPX   Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:02 pm

Thursday, June 26, 2008

From an interview granted by Bishop Richard Williamson, of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX) to Bruno Volpe, of the Italian religious website Petrus:


Bishop Williamson, how do you see Rome's proposals? Do you see a reunion of the schism as practicable?

"I appreciated the tone of the letter of Cardinal Castrillón Hoyos, but I frankly believe that nothing will be done and that our answer will be negative."


-----------


Friday, June 27, 2008

SSPX spokesman: Letter was sent on Thursday;
SSPX "has no intention to respond to the ultimatum"

The spokesman of the FSSPX / SSPX spoke to France-Presse (AFP) today:

"The Fraternity has no intention to respond to this ultimatum," Father Alain Lorans, spokesman of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X, declared to the AFP by telephone from Ecône (Switzerland).

"We do not foresee any practical or canonical agreement before having considered the doctrinal questions which came about after Vatican II," [...].

"Bishop Bernard Fellay [Superior General of the Fraternity] is surprised with the existing gap between the procedure of the ultimatum and the content of this ultimatum, which remains very uncertain," Father Lorans added.
...

According to Father Lorans, the Superior General of the Fraternity, Bishop Fellay, wrote a letter to Vatican authorities on Thursday.


-----------



Galarreta: "We will not follow it"; Let us "follow the steps"

The essential part of the Sermon pronounced by Bishop Alfonso de Galarreta, of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX), for the ceremony of ordinations which took place this morning in Ecône:

Bp. Galarreta wrote:
The ultimatum of the Cardinal: to call this an "ultimatum" is to say too much. It is, for us, a desire to alarm us, to build pressure for a purely practical agreement. This way which they wish to impose upon us is a dead way and we will not follow it. We cannot commit [engager] to betray the profession of Faith nor to let ourselves be signed up for a demolition venture.

Our response to the Holy Father is thus to follow the steps with the known prerequisites and a doctrinal discussion. This will produce this answer: either a pause or a stagnation in our contacts with Rome, or a new condemnation - and we ask ourselves what -, or a withdrawal of the excommunications.

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PostSubject: Re: Between Rome and SSPX   Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:00 pm

June 28, 2008, Saturday

Fellay: "I have already written a response and we will see how Rome will react"

The Superior General of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X (FSSPX / SSPX), Bishop Bernard Fellay, granted today an interview to Gino Driussi, of RTSI (the Italian-language Swiss public radio), providing some very enlightening answers:

[17:45][Fellay:] Perhaps it is false to say, in such a way, directly, that I reject, that I propose a total rejection [of the conditions], that is not true. Rather, I see in this ultimatum a very vague, confused thing. But, in fact, I have already written a response and we will see how Rome will react.
...
[18:53] [Fellay:] For me, this ultimatum has no sense, because we have relations with Rome which go forward in a certain speed, which is truly slow. And it is true, on the other hand, that both the Cardinal [Castrillón Hoyos] and the Holy Father would wish for a rather accelerated speed. For me, the only meaning of this ultimatum is the expression of this desire of Rome to give it a little bit of hastiness. Therefore, for me, it is not a reconsideration of all our relations.

[Interviewer:] "Then, you expect to continue in the dialogue, thus?"

[Fellay:] Yes, yes, it is possible that there will now be a time of more, of coolness, but, frankly, for me, it is not over, no.

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